{Endangered Species}: Does the Rational American Still Exist?

Transcript from the BBC World Service Newshour

BBC ANCHOR MATILDA WALL: …Despite performing for the late Queen Elizabeth II as well as the late Princess Diana, Sir Elton John declined to perform at King Charles’ upcoming coronation. When asked why, he responded simply by saying, “He’s Charles. Need I say more?”

Now, onto international news. The past decade has been a time of political tumult worldwide. We’ve seen a shift in social norms when it comes to respectability and acceptability of what we tolerate from our elected leaders, as well as a push towards further extremism.

Few countries are better examples of this than the United States of America.

In the past month alone, the country has continued to experience what seems to be an unending spate of gun violence that its leaders refuse to address. When they tried, two public officials in Tennessee were expelled, a move which was unheard of in the state’s modern history.

Instead, across the country, elected officials have moved to ban diverse books and drag queen shows, branding them a “danger to children.” They’ve restricted access to medical resources for victims of rape, and to health care for LGBTQIA+ individuals. They are speeding ever closer to slamming into a debt ceiling that could crash their economy, while acting like their hands are tied in the matter. All this is bolstered by members of the public screaming in support, as others scream back in opposition.

As headlines read of culture war, anger, and opposition from those within the country and those outside of it, there seems to be a common chorus:

Is the reasonable, rational American an endangered species?

We turn to our guests for their perspective. Tonight, I have with me an American, Harvard University Professor of Sociology Dr. Carolina Cortez-Hague, and a fellow Brit, historian, and Diplomat Harry Channing. Thank you both for being with me tonight. Dr. Cortez-Hague, I’d like to start with you: as an American, do you feel as though rationality is at risk of extinction in your country?

1. CAROLINA CORTEZ-HAGUE: It’s hard not to think that, Matilda. There has always been a battle for power, but as you said, it’s become intense in recent years. Certain leaders seem to have emboldened people to be the worst versions of themselves, and when we become the worst versions of ourselves, we’re not exactly rational people are we? We tend to see threats that aren’t there, contort ourselves to make logical arguments.

I mean, we’re seeing that right now in the backlash towards truth, people choosing to apply the word to what they believe rather than what is legitimately accurate. We’re particularly seeing this from people who are using their platforms to spread falsehoods and promote fear, rather than to have courage and tell the truth, because they believe it is what people want to hear and they’re more concerned with keeping power than using it for the right reasons. I think what we need to remember, the people who are promoting extremist ideas benefit from discord and disruption. Yes, they may believe it, but they also pander.

WALL: So, are you saying that American leadership is to blame for this?

CORTEZ-HAGUE: I’m not saying that they’re completely to blame. They wouldn’t be able to get away with it if there wasn’t an appetite for it. But I do believe they, along with our media and our social media companies, play a significant role in it.

I don’t believe that Americans, as a whole, are beyond reasonableness. When I speak with people—and this is around the country—they tell me how they interact with people of various beliefs—political and otherwise—every day and are able to find common ground. Once people get to know someone, to see past labels, they generally can see them as their fellow humans. But that’s becoming harder to do when anyone different than you is being painted as your enemy.

The problem is, our politics have become so extreme, and that creates a trickle-down effect of making Americans think the polarized world that politicians and talking heads describe is the objective reality, when that’s not the case. Our neighbors are not all murderers. The government isn’t out to take your guns. Transgender people are not predators. But when you scream loudly and often, people start to believe the loudest voice in the room.

HARRY CHANNING: It may be the only way that trickle-down actually works.

CORTEZ-HAGUE: (laughing) Right!

WALL: Harry, with your background, how are you seeing the international world reacting to what is going on in America?

CHANNING: Well, the world is worried, especially American allies. You don’t want to be making deals with a country that is struggling to govern itself and that in two, three, five years could see a dramatic shift in power and become more aligned with your adversaries, like Russia and Iran and North Korea. That’s a scary diplomatic position to be in, and with it comes a lot of hesitancy. I have heard from G10 leaders who say that they watch the news, and they’ll see United States’ congresspeople going off on bigoted, conspiratorial rants that go unchecked, or their leaders just fighting with each other rather than discussing real issues, and all they can think, and I apologize for my language, is “who the [CENSORED] are we dealing with?”

CORTEZ-HAGUE: Understandably. We’re wondering that, too.

CHANNING: Countries, like people, like to be able to negotiate. They like to be able to find a middle ground. But in this climate, when coming to the middle means having to move far one way or the other, and many times to the detriment of one vulnerable group or another, negotiating doesn’t look as appealing. It’s like if you were against the death penalty and trying to negotiate with someone who wanted beheadings, and they decided that a firing squad was a good meeting point. It just doesn’t work, and it shrinks a country’s standing on the world stage. There’s really no way around that.

CORTEZ-HAGUE: And I think that’s what is so disheartening to many people, in our country, internationally. People don’t like ultimatums or extremes or absolutes, but that is the worldview that politicians are presenting, and it’s not realistic or sustainable long-term.

CHANNING: It also goes in the face of what America touts itself to stand for: freedom and democracy. Leaders are looking at America and they’re saying that this is a country that acts like a bastion of freedom but is presenting itself like a third-world country at times. When you’re facing random, unfettered violence daily, when people’s liberties are being taken away to ensure that one group stays in power, that is not freedom. And as you said, Doctor, a country can’t stand like that for long.

WALL: You’re both bringing up feasibility. Let’s talk about that. How have we seen shifts like this play out in history? Have we seen something like this before?

CHANNING: Of course, we’ve seen something like this. I’m sure our audience has heard the phrase history doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme. When it comes to extremism, the opposite seems to be true. The same talking points, the same issues, pop up over and over. Yes, sometimes they are a bit different. The targeted groups may change, but largely they don’t. Throughout history, it has been racial minorities, women, and people who are Jewish or in the LGBTQ+ community. This has been part of their stories for decades, centuries, millennia in some cases.

We like to think that we’re past that, and that we’re so far away from the times of Hitler and the height of the Ku Klux Klan, but we’re less than 100 years out from both, and in some cases our ideology hasn’t advanced nearly as far.

CORTEZ-HAGUE: Exactly. A prime example of this is that during World War II, far-right nationalism was on the rise in the U.S. There were bombings, acts of violence. It was infiltrating Congress. Like you said, Harry, the times have changed, but it doesn’t sound all that different does it?

WALL: So how does it change? Based on your examples, in many cases it doesn’t end well for the extremist countries or people. What becomes of America? Harry, let’s start with you. Final thoughts.

CHANNING: There are a few paths that history has shown us. One: the movement conquers the country and the country tries to conquer the world, like with Nazi Germany. Two: as America has already been through, civil war breaks out, and either the country becomes unified again, or splits. Three: moderating forces rise up and are able to bring the ideology back down to earth and towards the middle again. I am hoping for number three, but we never know.

WALL: Dr. Cortez-Hague, what do you hope for your country? Where do you see it going? Are those outcomes different?

CORTEZ-HAGUE: Well Matilda, I have the same hope as Harry. I would love to see nothing more than everyone come to their senses and realize that this is not the way we want to live. Then we can return to the lessons we learned in elementary school: You don’t have to like everyone, but you should try to get along.

You know, we hear so much about American exceptionalism, but it seems like the only thing that we may be exceptional at right now is our hate, particularly our hate for each other, and that is a travesty. We can do so much better, and I am hoping that we choose better. Trends are saying otherwise, but like we see every season: trends change, so maybe this will too.

It’s time that we analyze the messages being fed to us, and ask why they are and who they benefit, and begin calling out these extremist views for what we are. We need to take to the ballot box, change our media habits, and focus on creating a culture of open dialogue, understanding, and empathy. Otherwise we won’t just be endangered. We’re going to die.

WALL: I think that there are many that share those same hopes and fears. The world will certainly be watching. Harry, Dr. Cortez-Hague, thank you both for your time.

Now, we turn to our science beat. Cockroaches for dinner? One scientific study is saying that consuming the vermin may improve your lifespan, but is it true and is it worth it? We’ll take a deep dive into this after the break in our special Discovery segment.